[Sierra]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:21:47 am #6746 Penner must have REALLY tried to figure this out with Hayden, because tbh, I am very surprised that his final pitch is to Tammy instead of him. They have always been on the record saying they value each of their games equally, the only hope for him was Hayden... he's gone if Hayden (wisely) thinks his best move is to boot Penner. Still a great game by Penner though if he goes, gotta give it up to him.

[Drew]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:27:43 am #6764 Tammy is currently proving how she didn't have a grasp on how the players felt.

[Sierra]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:33:12 am #6779

Everyone (wrongly) thinks that you have just been Heidi's loyal follower and she will mop up all the votes that should go your way.

Not that Tammy would ever go against Heidi, but this quote might make Tammy think that Penner actually thinks she deserves it over Heidi, only solidifying it more.

[Penner]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:58:31 am #6835 Tammy definitely deserves it over Heidi. But she doesn't seem to be playing to win.

[Sierra]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:03:13 am #6838

Tammy definitely deserves it over Heidi. But she doesn't seem to be playing to win.

I've pretty much been on that same train. I just have a love for that kind of well-positioned strategic game as a juror. Hayden may have had a slightly easier road than both of the others not needing to have a big bullseye target on his back from a partnership, but Tammy was safer than Heidi literally ALL game it felt to me. To me that counts for something, but at the same time if she's failed to distinguish herself from her fellow finalists as a winner pick, then that's on her too.

Hayden and Tammy very rarely came close to the axe, and that's what it's all about. But I also think Heidi's OTT strategy was a big part of WHY Tammy was able to slip into that spot too. I know this sounds corny but I wouldn't hate any outcome here.

[Penner]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:23:19 am #6847 I just feel like once Heidi was on the outs, she totally gave up on the social aspect of the game and threw her toys out of the pram. She stops messaging you completely and just calls you names at tribal and in challenges. Tammy is a class act in comparison and always kept her options open. Without the various advantages as a result of being the last pair and the extra vote advantage, Heidi would have been toast but I could still see Tammy making it to the end. That's what makes me think she's the stronger player.

For Hayden, he's a nice lad but I think it's too easy to project a game and sense of strategy onto him that didn't really exist.

[Val]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:44:38 am #6848 In defense of "pram" Heidi, I think whenever she would do that it helped her redirect votes more efficiently. Nate went because of the Idol fear, but a handy extra vote and vociferous plea against Sugar landed Sierra here after the tie made her safe. Then Sugar finally went.

Idk what happened with Ozzy, but I remember when I screwed you guys over, she didn't extend her claws, nor did she ignore me. Because at that point she couldn't and she knew she couldn't. I assume Ozzy did something and she found a way to work with you (Penner), again. Wast that at the grace of Tammy. Then your vote made things fairly simple again.

But, I think this, was truly aided by Tammy being so winning, allowing her to pull off moves that normally might sacrifice her. Truth is, I think Tammy would make it this far without Heidi, but not vice-versa.

[Dan]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:54:08 am #6849 Hayden is the best of the 3. Imma write one final load when I get on a computer. Think some of y'all underestimated him

[Val]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:57:43 am #6850

In defense of "pram" Heidi, I think whenever she would do that it helped her redirect votes more efficiently. Nate went because of the Idol fear, but a handy extra vote and vociferous plea against Sugar landed Sierra here after the tie made her safe. Then Sugar finally went.

Idk what happened with Ozzy, but I remember when I screwed you guys over, she didn't extend her claws, nor did she ignore me. Because at that point she couldn't and she knew she couldn't. I assume Ozzy did something and she found a way to work with you (Penner), again. Wast that at the grace of Tammy. Then your vote made things fairly simple again.

But, I think this, was truly aided by Tammy being so winning, allowing her to pull off moves that normally might sacrifice her. Truth is, I think Tammy would make it this far without Heidi, but not vice-versa.

Sorry, it's late, but that's no excuse for that nonsense:

In defense of "pram" Heidi, I think whenever she would do that it helped her redirect votes more efficiently. Nate went because of the Idol fear, but a handy extra vote and vociferous plea against Sugar landed Sierra in Ponderosa. That tie assured Heidi's safety from the rocks. Then Sugar finally went in the next vote.

Idk what happened with Ozzy, but I remember when I screwed you guys over, Heidi didn't extend her claws, nor did she ignore me. Because at that point she couldn't and she knew she couldn't. I assume Ozzy did something and she found a way to work with you (Penner), again. (Was that at the grace of Tammy?) Then your vote off was, again, fairly simple.

But, I think this, was truly aided by Tammy being so winning, allowing her to pull off moves that normally might sacrifice her. Truth is, I think Tammy would make it this far without Heidi, but not vice-versa.

Though Tammy did go to rocks and I don't know how I feel about that, which makes me agree with the idea that she wasn't playing to win.

@Dan, Hayden's NOT bad nor is he underestimated. He's been the default winner here from the start the final four if Penner failed to win immunity.

[Penner]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:37:12 am #6851

In defense of "pram" Heidi, I think whenever she would do that it helped her redirect votes more efficiently. Nate went because of the Idol fear, but a handy extra vote and vociferous plea against Sugar landed Sierra here after the tie made her safe. Then Sugar finally went.

The only reason both of these things happened is because the game was stacked in the last pair's favour, once one was voted out, the majority was in trouble because the other won immunity. And immunity necklaces allowed them to get to a point where that was game breaking.

You say Heidi kept talking to you, but when you see the shit she was saying ABOUT you, you're going to be pretty pissed.

[Sierra]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:17:05 pm #6853 Yo Penner you never revealed the shit Heidi allegedly spewed about me right before my rock TC, lmao. You said she had it out for me BIG but I kind of assumed you were full of it!

I do think Hayden has been a little bit underestimated, but the FTC will have to be strong to back up that assertion. Hayden has the most to lose at the FTC, and Tammy is the one who really has the chance to show us the most. I feel like Heidi's game pretty much is what it is. Somewhat flawed in ways (like basically everyone's games), but I'd still consider it at least "very good". I'd be surprised if we learned much new about her Sunday night, and people are either gonna vote for her or not vote for her based on what we already know.

[Sierra]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:17:45 pm #6854 ^ in the game I mean. We haven't underrated Hayden in Ponderosa

[Val]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:00:39 pm #6855

The only reason both of these things happened is because the game was stacked in the last pair's favour, once one was voted out, the majority was in trouble because the other won immunity. And immunity necklaces allowed them to get to a point where that was game breaking.

They did have to get those people (including me) to vote with them first. Heidi could have never repaired things with me and that wouldn't be the case. I think a fairer way to assess it than "the game was stacked in (their) favor is "they both stacked the game in their favor." Tammy maybe more so because she then crushed a bunch of challenges, played her idol in very well, and managed her Heidi shield well.

You say Heidi kept talking to you, but when you see the shit she was saying ABOUT you, you're going to be pretty pissed.

You should have seen what Nadiya said about me in my season, and she was my ally. As a beloved winner I'm used to it.

[Penner]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:23:33 pm #6857 I think they were very luck to come into the merge being one of only two pairs remaining and having the numbers (and an idol handed to them) to take out the other pair. Yes, you flipped at the merge, but I don't think you ever intended that to be a permanent thing. I think it gives Heidi too much credit to suggest you flipped permanently to Dan & Co and she coaxed you back with her amazing social game.

[Penner]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:27:06 pm #6858

Yo Penner you never revealed the shit Heidi allegedly spewed about me right before my rock TC, lmao. You said she had it out for me BIG but I kind of assumed you were full of it!

I do think Hayden has been a little bit underestimated, but the FTC will have to be strong to back up that assertion. Hayden has the most to lose at the FTC, and Tammy is the one who really has the chance to show us the most. I feel like Heidi's game pretty much is what it is. Somewhat flawed in ways (like basically everyone's games), but I'd still consider it at least "very good". I'd be surprised if we learned much new about her Sunday night, and people are either gonna vote for her or not vote for her based on what we already know.

I think for me I'd rate them Tammy > Heidi > Hayden right now, but the great thing about this F3 (F5, F6, F7 maybe even further) onwards is that nobody is written off and it'll all come down to what I hear at FTC. I could see myself voting for anyone in the end.

For me, Hayden has the most to show. If I didn't flip to his side (which was my move and not his) I just don't see him making it anywhere near the end.

[Val]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:23:24 pm #6859

I think they were very luck to come into the merge being one of only two pairs remaining and having the numbers (and an idol handed to them) to take out the other pair. Yes, you flipped at the merge, but I don't think you ever intended that to be a permanent thing. I think it gives Heidi too much credit to suggest you flipped permanently to Dan & Co and she coaxed you back with her amazing social game.

What about getting oz to part with that idol? Isn't that something?

[Val]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:27:31 pm #6860

I think they were very luck to come into the merge being one of only two pairs remaining and having the numbers (and an idol handed to them) to take out the other pair. Yes, you flipped at the merge, but I don't think you ever intended that to be a permanent thing. I think it gives Heidi too much credit to suggest you flipped permanently to Dan & Co and she coaxed you back with her amazing social game.

What about getting oz to part with that idol? Isn't that something?

Sure it benefited him, but again, the bombastic way she played allowed her to be the one to get the immunity. Obviously you could argue that there was too much chance to make it anything strategic for her, but it's pretty consistently worked for her.

[Dan]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:42:48 pm #6863 Ozzy can speak for himself, but I think he would have played that on anyone if it meant taking down the Gods and getting himself into the majority. This is one of many Heidi moments I will address in my final ever Load + jury speech

[Ozzy]

- Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:47:59 pm #6864

Ozzy can speak for himself, but I think he would have played that on anyone if it meant taking down the Gods and getting himself into the majority. This is one of many Heidi moments I will address in my final ever Load + jury speech

I wouldn't say I'd play it on ANYONE (or I would've played it on Rich). But I knew Heidi and Tammy would be loyal to me for rounds following and that was beneficial. Had she not come to Pohnpei at the first swap, I don't think I use the idol on her. Had to be someone I saw as an ally.

Agree with most of what's being said. Hayden has the furthest fall from grace (which I'm kind of expecting) and Tammy had a lot to gain from it. I still believe Heidi played a great game and used people to move herself forward, but that's a bias since I was close to her.

We'll see.

[Penner]

- Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:52:06 pm #6934

I think they were very luck to come into the merge being one of only two pairs remaining and having the numbers (and an idol handed to them) to take out the other pair. Yes, you flipped at the merge, but I don't think you ever intended that to be a permanent thing. I think it gives Heidi too much credit to suggest you flipped permanently to Dan & Co and she coaxed you back with her amazing social game.

What about getting oz to part with that idol? Isn't that something?

I don't know could you credit that to Heidi. I also begged him to play it on Heidi, and I'm the one who got Dan to tell me they were voting for Heidi just before tribal, which I relayed to Ozzy and told him to play the idol on her so we'd have the numbers going forward.

But Ozzy's a big boy and I'm sure he worked out all of that shit for himself anyway. The suggestion that he was manipulated into playing it by Heidi is a bit silly.